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Lingual and Inferior Alveolar Nerve Damage Discussion Site

Subject: "Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin)"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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charlottefr
Member since Feb-22-08
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Apr-19-08, 01:04 AM (CST)
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"Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin)"
 
   LAST EDITED ON Apr-19-08 AT 06:06 AM (CST)
 
Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin) is often recommended to take as part of the treatment for lingual or IAN injuries. I thought it would be good to post information that we find on the benefits and/or risks of taking this vitamin.
..................................
What is the difference between Cyanocobalamin and Methylcobalamin?

Methylcobalamin is the active form of vitamin B-12 that is better absorbed than many of the other forms like cyanocobalamin. Actually, Vitamin B12 comes in several kinds including hydroxy-, cyano-, and adenosyl-, but only the methyl form is used in the central nervous system.

Here are some of the many uses and benefits of Methylcobalin The methyl form of B-12 especially protects nerve tissue and brain cells, and promotes healthy sleep.

Methylcobalamin is important because it is delivered more efficiently to nerve tissues than regular B-12. Because of this, Methylcobalamin should be considered in the treatment of all neurological diseases.

Based on its mechanism of action, it can be effective in slowing the progression of hard to treat neurological diseases like ALS, Multiple Sclerosis and Parkinson's Disease. Published studies show that high doses can help regenerate neurons and the myelin sheath that protects axons and peripheral nerves. Theraputic doses of Methylcobalamin have also been known to prevent and reverse numbness from nerve damage.

Among the conditions which have responded favorably to Methylcobalamin are, ALS (Lou Gehrig's Disease,) Alzheimer's disease, Bell's Palsy, Parkinson's disease, Multiple Sclerosis, Brain Aging, Insomnia, Immune dysfunction, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia, Schizophrenia, Diabetes, Impotence and Herpes Zoster (Shingles.)

In one study of Alzheimer's patients given Methylcobalamin, the subjects improved their memory, emotions, and ability to communicate. In Alzheimer's or suspected Mercury amalgam related diseases (e.g. MS,) a hidden Vitamin B-12 deficiency has been found, even though the usual blood tests are normal. In one study of patients with chronic, progressive Multiple Sclerosis, 60 mg of Methylcobalamin resulted in clinical improvement in visual and auditory function, but not motor disability.

Methylcobalamin may help prevent Parkinson's disease and slow the progression in those who are already afflicted. Parkinson's is caused by a destruction of brain cells that produce dopamine. Dopamine is produced from the amino acid, L-Dopa. Anyone taking any form of L-Dopa should also take from 5 to 20 mg of Methylcobalamin to enjoy the benefits of L-Dopa for much longer. For best results, it should be taken with Alpha Lipoic Acid. In a sleep study it was shown that Methylcobalamin reduced the amount of time the subjects slept, but the sleep quality was better and subjects awakened refreshed with better alertness and concentration.

Methylcobalamin at 6mg per day for 16 weeks also improved sperm count by 37.5 percent.

In other studies it was found that Methylcobalamin enhances and modulates lymphocytes (white blood cells) by increasing T-Cell (and especially T-helper cells) activity.

In mice, several different kinds of cancerous tumors were suppressed by administration of Methylcobalamin for seven days. These included liver, lung and other tumors.

In a study of Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS) patients, all given high dose (25 mg per day) Methylcobalamin showed increases in muscle strength. Methylcobalamin also slows the progression to AIDS in HIV + patients and helps prevent neurological problems. Methylcobalamin also balances the sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system (calming when overexcited and stimulating when too calm).

A therapeutic dose for conditions requiring Methylcobalamin would be a minimum of 1500 mcg and a maximum of 6000 mcg per day. No significant therapeutic advantage appears to occur from dosages exceeding this maximum dose; however, it is likely that beneficial physiological effects occur at dosages as low as 100 mcg per day, especially if this dose is given repetitively over time. Methylcobalamin is usually administered in divided doses three times daily. For every day prevention take 1 mg daily under the tongue.
Dr. Edward F. Group III

http://www.ghchealth.com/jun-00.html


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 MaverickDMD Apr-19-08 1
     RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 charlottefr Apr-19-08 2
         RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 MaverickDMD Apr-19-08 3
             RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 KarenR Apr-19-08 4
                 RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 MaverickDMD Apr-20-08 5
                     RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 KarenR Apr-20-08 6
                         RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 charlottefr Apr-20-08 8
     RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 reesatay Apr-20-08 7
         RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 charlottefr Apr-20-08 9
             RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 KarenR Apr-20-08 10
                 RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 bowho Apr-20-08 11
                     RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 charlottefr Jun-21-08 12
                         RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 MaverickDMD Jun-25-08 15
                             RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 reesatay Jun-25-08 16
                             RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 charlottefr Jun-26-08 17
                                 RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 bowho Jun-26-08 18
                                     RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 charlottefr Jun-28-08 23
                                         RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 bowho Jun-28-08 24
                 RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12 pim Jun-25-08 14
  RE: Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin) jrupert1492 Jun-25-08 13
     RE: Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin) Bob Jun-27-08 19
         RE: Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin) MaverickDMD Jun-27-08 20
             RE: Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin) bowho Jun-28-08 22
             RE: Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin) reesatay Jun-28-08 25
             RE: Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin) charlottefr Jul-01-08 26
         RE: Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin) bowho Jun-28-08 21

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MaverickDMD
Member since Dec-14-07
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Apr-19-08, 05:36 AM (CST)
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1. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #0
 
   You've got to be careful in prescribing doses of any vitamin here. Although B12 is a water soluble vitamin, megadoses of this, above the 2.5 mcg RDA could create cardiovascular risks in the unknown patient and particularly in pregnant women.

Recommending a 6.0 mg dose to anyone, in other words a dose 250 times higher than what is the recommended dosage is certainly unsubstatiated , unless you're willing to state your reasons for this, as well as your qualifications for prescribing this and the willingness to take on legal responsibility as for this as well. Vitamin B12 regardless of it's name or form is converted to the active form in the gut by intrinsic factor which is present in the normal stomach. Very small doses are needed except in the very few people who have been diagnosed with megaloblastic hypochromic, or pernicious anemia, which this diagnosis would have occurred early in life and would have preceded any nerve injury. The reckless prescription of megadoses of B12, particularly by a layperson via the internet without a thorough medical history of the patient is asking for trouble.

If you have an interest in treating patients appropriately, I would suggest that you become eligible for, apply to, then become accepted to and complete either dental or medical school. At any rate, your advice will gain more traction here in about 8 years.


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charlottefr
Member since Feb-22-08
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Apr-19-08, 06:43 AM (CST)
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2. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #1
 
   maverick, I'm sorry you misunderstood my post. I'm not prescribing anything or "recommending megadoses of B12". Why would you think that? I know you don't 'like' me..but could you please stop accusing me of things? I am just posting information that I hope might be of benefit to others with nerve injuries - myself included.

I include a link in my posts so that everyone knows where the information comes from. I thought the article that I posted explained the difference between Methylcobalin B12 and Cyanocobalamin B12 very well.

I'm sorry I should have said "benefits and/or risks" of Vitamin B12 in the first line of my post and your reaction to it might have been different. I've edited my post to change the first line. I think it's good to have opposing views on topics so that we all can make informed decisions on what treatment we might decide to undertake. I hope you will share any links to information or studies that you might have access to that discuss any possible adverse affects of methylcobalin b12 in the treatment of oral nerve injuries.



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MaverickDMD
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Apr-19-08, 01:37 PM (CST)
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3. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #2
 
   If you include a link to support your position, in effect you have prescribed the treatment and you are responsible for its outcome. If you prescribe any medical treatment to another human being, you had better be very trained on the subject for everyone's benefit.


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KarenR
Member since Oct-10-06
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Apr-19-08, 03:21 PM (CST)
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4. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #3
 
   Mav, take your Ritalin, give it a few minutes to start working on your poor ADHD brain, and try again. She posted the information WITHOUT A POSITION. It's excellent that you would like to disagree with the information provided in her post, but since it's not written by her and doesn't contain her opinion, you are misdirecting your attack.

Now me, I have a position and I'm going to support it with a link. Please move to some godforsaken corner of Afgahnistan where they have poor internet access and Need and Want OSes of ANY mental caliber and provide something of real consequence to the world. (I am, by the way, very well trained in moving to foreign countries, if you need advice.)
----> http://www.volunteermatch.org/orgs/org64230.html


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MaverickDMD
Member since Dec-14-07
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Apr-20-08, 03:18 AM (CST)
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5. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #4
 
   So you're going to move your counterattack on me to involve politics and the opinions of the war in Iraq. That's always a good move. I'm here to help patients live a better life. If you want to involve political opinions and thus judge someone based on that then good luck to you.


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KarenR
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Apr-20-08, 10:58 AM (CST)
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6. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #5
 
   Roflskatz, Mav...
You have no idea what my political opinion on the war in Iraq is. You know my opinion on dental care in Afghanistan.
Damn, son, LEARN TO READ.


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charlottefr
Member since Feb-22-08
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Apr-20-08, 11:35 AM (CST)
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8. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #6
 
   :-) Too bad this thread couldn't be melted down and put in pill form...it's done wonders for my spirit. Oh, my goodness...I know what rofl means but what is skatz?


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reesatay
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Apr-20-08, 11:32 AM (CST)
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7. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #1
 
   Mav,

Where did you get this info about B12 causing cardivascular problem if taken in mega doses? I've not seen this before. In fact I've seen evidence that B12 supplementation may help cardivacular health by lowering homocysteine levels... Also the link below has statements to the face the B12 has a very low potential for toxicity.

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitaminb12.asp#h3

What is the health risk of too much vitamin B12?
The Institute of Medicine of the National Academies did not establish a UL for this vitamin because vitamin B12 has a very low potential for toxicity. The IOM states that "no adverse effects have been associated with excess vitamin B12 intake from food and supplements in healthy individuals" . In fact, the IOM recommends that adults older than 50 years get most of their vitamin B12 from vitamin supplements or fortified food because of the high incidence of impaired absorption in this age group of vitamin B12 from foods that come from animals .

Since we are dealing with nerve damage there is evidence to support taking high dosages of this supplement to promote nerve healing. See link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8021696
Ultra-high dose methylcobalamin promotes nerve regeneration in experimental acrylamide neuropathy.

"T"


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charlottefr
Member since Feb-22-08
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Apr-20-08, 11:39 AM (CST)
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9. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #7
 
   ree, he can't possibly provide a link to his statements because according to him, "If you include a link to support your position, in effect you have prescribed the treatment and you are responsible for its outcome".


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KarenR
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Apr-20-08, 12:57 PM (CST)
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10. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #9
 
   Hmmm. . . "Roflskatz." Rofl, as you know, refers to Roll On the Floor Laughing + Skatz/skates = essentially, "hilarity on wheels." A variant of "lollerskatz/skates."

Oh. . . and just incase: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=roflskates
(Also, I have a degree in English and German and am familiar with and fluent in over 6 languages, 2 of them computer programming languages.)


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bowho
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Apr-20-08, 02:35 PM (CST)
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11. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #10
 
   hey all..watch out mavee accused me of stalking him..he might report us all as the freaky nerve injured girls..then we will really be doomed


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charlottefr
Member since Feb-22-08
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Jun-21-08, 08:16 AM (CST)
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12. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #11
 
   Mav, do you remember that you quickly chastised me on this thread for simply posting a link and information re: Vitamin B12. And yet, here you are, a few weeks later telling a newly injured person that “there is no harm” in taking Methyl B12 and that you would take it yourself “if you were in (her) place”.

The only proof, as far as I know, that we readers have that you are actually a dental professional is that you have DMD written after your screen name. If you are who you say you are, and if you believe that methylcobalamin VitB12 might be helpful in the treatment of oral nerve injuries…then shouldn’t you at least include a recommended appropriate dosage with your statements (especially since you claim to be a DMD?)

From your recent post: “Other voodoo treatments like methyl B12 and NerveFix might help so there is no harm in taking them, and if it were me in your place I'd give them a go too.”

(June 21/08 Topic #82 “No Surgery” thread – Tooth Extraction conference)

On your proposed “protocol” for post-care for injection injuries, you say…

2) Next day or first clinical follow up: evaluation of the nerve(s) involved; assessment of injectional or extraction causation or both to allow localization of the site of injury. Steroid anti-inflammatory drugs such as Decadron 4mg bid for 3 days (medical history permitting) should be initiated.

Initiation of methyl cobalamin or Nerve Fx as a standby.

7)… “Some studies suggest high doses of methylcobalamin or vitamin B12 are helpful. These medications can be administered by the oral and maxillofacial surgeon or the referred neurologist as early on as the symptoms suggest.”
.....................................

Question: What is methyl B12, Mav? Voodoo (deceptive or delusive nonsense?) or a potentially helpful supplement supported by studies? Imo, it can’t be both.

voodoo
1. A religion practiced chiefly in Caribbean countries, especially Haiti, syncretized from Roman Catholic ritual elements and the animism and magic of slaves from West Africa, in which a supreme God rules a large pantheon of local and tutelary deities, deified ancestors, and saints, who communicate with believers in dreams, trances, and ritual possessions. Also called vodoun.
2. A charm, fetish, spell, or curse holding magic power for adherents of voodoo.
3. A practitioner, priest, or priestess of voodoo.
4. Deceptive or delusive nonsense.

http://www.answers.com/topic/voodoo

........................................................

btw, could you please answer reesatay's question in post 7 on this thread?


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MaverickDMD
Member since Dec-14-07
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Jun-25-08, 02:43 PM (CST)
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15. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #12
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-25-08 AT 02:54 PM (CST)
 
The RDA recommended intake for B12 is 6 micrograms per day for adults. Recommending 6.0 grams or 1000 times this dose is reckless and unfounded advice. Yes, large doses of B12 probably pass right through but there is no good evidence that this is either a safe or efficacious treatment. Just because a deficiency causes certain symptoms does not mean that megadoses of the same vitamin will head the other way and correct the problem -- there is no link between the 2. So until studies show that megadoses of B12 are both harmless to the patient while being beneficial, it isn't responsible advice to give people, plain and simple. Most B12 supplements come in 25 to 50 ug doses. Patients lacking intrinsic factor are often put on doses up to 1000 mcg/day but absorption will be much higher in the healthy patient with intact IF. Advocating even 50-100 mcg in the healthy patient might be the more prudent course of action since the RDA is only 6. This would show due diligence without recklessness. Again however there is no science on what level is optimal or whether any level works or not. If you want to use other people as guinea pigs then that is your prerogative -- you are responsible for the outcome. And regarding the acrylamide poisoning study in rats, all this abstract shows is that megadoses of B12 may have helped out poisoned rats -- there is no reliable correlation to humans every time.


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reesatay
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Jun-25-08, 04:59 PM (CST)
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16. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #15
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-25-08 AT 05:12 PM (CST)
 
Mav,

I disagree with your statement about taking high dosages of B12 being reckless and unfounded advice. Here are 3 abstracts from Pubmed that supports the usage and safety of Ultra-High dosages of Methyl-B12 for nerve regeneration. There are definately some supplements you don't want to take to much of because that could harm you. This isn't one of those supplements.

*******
Ultra-high dose methylcobalamin promotes nerve regeneration in experimental acrylamide neuropathy.

Despite intensive searches for therapeutic agents, few substances have been convincingly shown to enhance nerve regeneration in patients with peripheral neuropathies. Recent biochemical evidence suggests that an ultra-high dose of methylcobalamin (methyl-B12) may up-regulate gene transcription and thereby protein synthesis. We examined the effects of ultra-high dose of methyl-B12 on the rate of nerve regeneration in rats with acrylamide neuropathy, using the amplitudes of compound muscle action potentials (CMAPs) after tibial nerve stimulation as an index of the number of regenerating motor fibers. After intoxication with acrylamide, all the rats showed equally decreased CMAP amplitudes. The animals were then divided into 3 groups; rats treated with ultra-high (500 micrograms/kg body weight, intraperitoneally) and low (50 micrograms/kg) doses of methyl-B12, and saline-treated control rats. Those treated with ultra-high dose showed significantly faster CMAP recovery than saline-treated control rats, whereas the low-dose group showed no difference from the control. Morphometric analysis revealed a similar difference in fiber density between these groups. Ultra-high doses of methyl-B12 may be of clinical use for patients with peripheral neuropathies.

*******
Another:

Intravenous methylcobalamin treatment for uremic and diabetic neuropathy in chronic hemodialysis patients.

OBJECT: To study the effects of the intravenous administration of methylcobalamin, an analogue of vitamin B12, for uremic or uremic-diabetic polyneuropathy in patients who are receiving maintenance hemodialysis. An ultra-high dose of vitamin B12 has been reported to promote peripheral nerve regeneration in experimental neuropathy. METHODS: Nine patients received a 500 microg methylcobalamin injection 3 times a week for 6 months. The effects were evaluated using neuropathic pain grading and a nerve conduction study. RESULTS: Serum concentrations of vitamin B12 were ultra-high during treatment due to the lack of urinary excretion. After 6 months of treatment, the patients' pain or paresthesia had lessened, and the ulnar motor and median sensory nerve conduction velocities showed significant improvement. There were no side effects. CONCLUSION: Intravenous methycobalamin treatment is a safe and potentially beneficial therapy for neuropathy in chronic hemodialysis patients.

*******
And another:

Improvement of autonomic neuropathy after mecobalamin treatment in uremic patients on hemodialysis.

The effect of mecobalamin on autonomic neuropathy was evaluated in 20 hemodialyzed uremic patients; their mean age was 53 years and the duration of hemodialysis was 6.5 years; 14 were women. The cardiac beat-to-beat variation (BBV) was used as the measure of autonomic neuropathy. Twelve patients with normal BBV test results were either given 1,500 micrograms of mecobalamin daily for three months (six patients) or were untreated (six patients). The BBV test results did not change significantly over the three months in either the treated or untreated group, nor were there any significant between-group differences. Eight patients with abnormal results on the BBV test were given 1,500 micrograms of mecobalamin daily for six months. The mean BBV values increased significantly from 3.3 beats/min before treatment to 5.8 beats/min at six months (P less than 0.005); five of these patients (including three of the four patients with diabetes) showed normal BBV values by three months. It is concluded that mecobalamin can be used in the treatment of autonomic and peripheral neuropathy in both diabetic and nondiabetic patients with chronic renal failure.


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charlottefr
Member since Feb-22-08
201 posts
Jun-26-08, 07:09 AM (CST)
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17. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #15
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-08 AT 07:11 AM (CST)
 
You know, once again, no one on this forum is advocating taking mega doses of Vitamin B12..as much as you want to believe that. Some of us have posted studies or articles that claim that a high dose of Vitamin B12 has been found to be helpful for certain conditions. We're doing some research to find out if it has been found to be helpful for nerve repair as well.

You, on the other hand, have not provided links to studies that have found VitaminB12 to be harmful. Please, do that if you want to help.

It seems that the dental profession isn't too interested in pursuing or studying any potentially positive effects of Vitamin b12 with respect to oral nerve injuries. I wonder why that is? I think I know the answer to that.

I take 1000 mcg/day Vitamin B12 methylcobabamin sublingual and no one 'put me on it' but myself. I decided to try it after reading posts from several injured people who have tried it before...and after researching it a bit on the internet.

I purchased my last bottle at Walmart in Canada. Is Walmart selling a potentially dangerous/harmful product off the shelf to its consumers? Why aren't you advocating to have the makers of this supplement add a warning to their label?

On the container of methylB12 that I bought, it says "contains no artificial colours, preservatives or sweeteners, corn, soy, starch, wheat or yeast" Each tablet contains: Vitamin B12 Methylcobalamin...1000 mcg in a base of lactose, cellulose, croscarmellose sodium and vegetable grade magnesium stearate (lubricant). For maximum benefit, dissolve l tablet daily under tongue or as directed by a physician.

We are not stupid on this forum...if any of us wanted to try a higher "mega" dose of Vitamin B12...I'm sure we would see our physician first. If you can post studies that demonstrate that Vitb12 is harmful to take in a 1000 mcg/a day dosage, then I'll certainly take note of that and consider not taking it.

Personally, at this moment, I'm happy with taking the l000 mcg a day...I have no idea if it's helping...but one thing I know for sure is that I feel a heck of alot better without the severe side effects of the pharmaceutical drugs that I had been prescribed. It would be great if there were studies focusing on this supplement and its effects specifically on oral nerve injuries.

You say "Advocating even 50-100 mcg in the healthy patient might be the more prudent course of action since the RDA is only 6. This would show due diligence without recklessness." When you say 'healthy patient' are you referring to those of us with nerve injuries?? I am not a 'healthy patient'...I am still suffering from this nerve injury...not as severely as before..but the suffering isn't over yet. I can't imagine 50 or 100 mcg would have much of an effect on my nerve repair or regeneration? What amount have you decided to recommend on your proposed protocol?

The thing that bothers me the most about your post is that you seem to be more concerned about being 'diligent without recklessness' with respect to suggesting Vitamin B12..and yet you suggest on your protocol that patients be put on Neurontin without offering the same 'warning'. Neurontin is in the news again this month. Is it reckless at all for doctors to prescribe Neurontin to patients with oral nerve injuries? Has it been approved as a treatment for these types of injuries? Can it cause feelings of severe depression during 'recovery'? What are the side effects of this drug?


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bowho
Member since Nov-26-07
452 posts
Jun-26-08, 10:13 PM (CST)
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18. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #17
 
   Hey Mav ... Remember you did post this over in your nerve injury protocal.. and why does my name keep showing up there that i posted when i didnt ?

7) During this period, medications such as Carbamazepine, Oxcarbazepine, Gabapentin and Amitriptyline, and their may be others such as Tramadol, should be considered to modulate neural side effects and dysesthesias. Clonazepam is also indicated with a lesser degree of success. The general practitioner physician and dentist/oral surgeon should act as a team in applying these meds. Pain medication is often needed, often involving opiates but the addiction potential should be weighed against the need for pain resolution. Naproxen is a good anti-inflammatory that can be used for some duration. Often Tylenol 3 or oxycodone is required. Some studies suggest high doses of methylcobalamin or vitamin B12 are helpful. These medications can be administered by the oral and maxillofacial surgeon or the referred neurologist as early on as the symptoms suggest.


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charlottefr
Member since Feb-22-08
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Jun-28-08, 03:51 AM (CST)
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23. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #18
 
   I wondered why your name was there, too, bowho. I'm guessing that when Mav edits or makes changes to his protocol, then the name of the last person to post on the thread is still there because there actually wasn't a new post made?? He last edited it "Jun-26-08 AT 09:50 AM (CST)"


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bowho
Member since Nov-26-07
452 posts
Jun-28-08, 02:48 PM (CST)
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24. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #23
 
   OK, thanks for cluing me in on that .. i see now he changed some things that i didnt notice when i copy and pasted that part on B12 ..


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pim
Member since Oct-19-06
251 posts
Jun-25-08, 02:09 PM (CST)
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14. "RE: Methylcobalamin - Active form of Vit B12"
In response to message #10
 
   Karen

Do you know swedish? I need a couple of paragraphs translated. If so, can you send me a personal message with your email address? I would greatly appreciate it! Even willing to pay for it.

Thanks.


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jrupert1492
Member since Jun-25-08
2 posts
Jun-25-08, 01:50 PM (CST)
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13. "RE: Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin)"
In response to message #0
 
   I took your advice and purchased vitamin B-12 (Mighty Methyl B-12) from evitamins.com, and sure enough a month after taking them with my dinner the feeling in my tongue numbness is almost completely gone!! It has been 4 months since my surgery and I had no feeling at all until I started taking the supplements. Thank you!


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Bob
Member since Aug-6-07
127 posts
Jun-27-08, 10:04 PM (CST)
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19. "RE: Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin)"
In response to message #13
 
   jrupert - That is fantastic! It's so nice to hear of a success story. I find it amazing that doctors are so quick to prescribe dangerous drugs that are toxic and have serious side effects even when taken in the prescribed dosages, yet warn against taking a harmless vitamin or herb with few if any known side effects if taken in reasonable dosages. As for me, I wouldn't take neurontin or any of the other commonly prescribed drugs if you paid me, and I am suffering from a paresthesia. I KNOW these drugs are dangerous and ineffectual most of the time, and many, including neurontin, are being given for things they were never intended for. The fact is, there is NO drug that can regenerate a damaged lingual nerve, but there is at least the POTENTIAL of a nutrient or other natural substance of doing just that. Take Vit.B12 as one example!

Bob


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MaverickDMD
Member since Dec-14-07
117 posts
Jun-27-08, 11:40 PM (CST)
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20. "RE: Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin)"
In response to message #19
 
   I don't know who to reply to at this point but I sense the issue is that B12 will cure all nerve issues.

My wife has MS and my mother in law has Parkinson's. Both are being treated by the best neurologists in the land, one American trained, the other South African. There are the known drug pathways for drugs out there, but both have suggested, as an alternative, the homeopathic route of vitamin therapy as there is not enough known to know for sure that these treatments don't work or that they do. However, there is no harm in taking them for now as they have stated. B12 works great for those who have B12 deficencies or diseases that create B12 deficiencies. Neither neurologist has recommended B12 in either of my relatives cases, however they have recommended other B vitamins, plus N-Acetyl Cysteine and B1 and B6. They state that there is no hard evidence but their patients should take them as there is little chance of harm as is known yet.

My take on the B12 thing is pretty much the same. An exact toxic dose is not yet known, but a therapeutic dose is not known either. In cases of terminal brain disorders, there is a certain sense of "what the hell" which of course I understand. In the case of nerve injuries, these differ hugely from vitamin-deficient neuropathies where vitamin deficiency is the root cause of the disorder, but advocating that a high dose to correct a nerve transection is unknown territory and there is no evidence to claim that it works. As long as there is no claim that it doesn't work or is harmful, then how could one be against it? There will always be some lawyer who claims it is harmful, always, so one has to be careful when advocating such treatment.

The problem really is the dashing of hope. If B12 were to cure nerve injuries my highschool friend, a paraplegic since 1984 wouldn't have killed himself with Tylenol in 1987. I, as anyone would hope that B12 would cure any nerve injury. But today as it stands, it doesn't, so it is prudent not to hang hopes on a fringe treatment but to stand with many repeated trials with many agents so as to come up with a proven treatment to give nerve-injured patients a realistic viewpoint on which to focus during their convalescence. As such I would temper the enthusiasm of any treatments for nerve injury, particularly in our cases of LN or IAN injury and would stick to advocating the tried and true versions of treatment however imperfect as they are to date. Again, B12 and Nerve Fix are fringe treatments without proof of effect, but when one is up against the wall of failure, what the hell?


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bowho
Member since Nov-26-07
452 posts
Jun-28-08, 01:48 AM (CST)
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22. "RE: Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin)"
In response to message #20
 
   GEEZ MAVEE, You sure are on a rant here tonite for some reason .. Sorry to hear about your wife and mother in law .. and your friend too .. Glad to see Bob and you having civil conversation


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reesatay
Member since Sep-29-06
1080 posts
Jun-28-08, 07:16 PM (CST)
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25. "RE: Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin)"
In response to message #20
 
   But there is research that shows that B-12 does help improve nerve healing. ALS, MS, diabetic neuropathy and other conditions can and do benefit from this treatment. Just because your doctor hasn't recommended this treatment for you doesn't mean it isn't a valid treatment. Doctors don't know everything.

Unfortunatley there isn't a miracle cure for an injured nerve. What it takes is hitting it from many directions. My doctors never advocated acupuncture, but I found it very helpful with my pain control. If I had waitied for my doctors to suggest this treatment I would have missed out on an important aspect of my treatment that I believe helped in my recovery.

For MS... there is a fringe treatment that advocate a simple bee sting can bring on a remission. Now... if I had MS... I might look into it even it the God like medical community doesn't support it.

"T"


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charlottefr
Member since Feb-22-08
201 posts
Jul-01-08, 03:29 AM (CST)
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26. "RE: Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin)"
In response to message #20
 
   >I don't know who to reply to at this point but I sense the
>issue is that B12 will cure all nerve issues.
......................

>I,as anyone would hope that B12 would cure any nerve injury.
>But today as it stands, it doesn't, so it is prudent not to
>hang hopes on a fringe treatment but to stand with many
>repeated trials with many agents so as to come up with a
>proven treatment to give nerve-injured patients a realistic
>viewpoint on which to focus during their convalescence. As
>such I would temper the enthusiasm of any treatments for
>nerve injury, particularly in our cases of LN or IAN injury
>and would stick to advocating the tried and true versions of
>treatment however imperfect as they are to date. Again, B12
>and Nerve Fix are fringe treatments without proof of effect,
>but when one is up against the wall of failure, what the
>hell?

I think you're sensing incorrectly...where has anyone on this forum said that B12 will 'cure all nerve issues' or 'cure any nerve injury'.

You're now referring to methylB12 as a fringe treatment not 'voodoo'. What are the 'tried and true' versions of treatment for lingual or IA nerve injuries with respect to prescribed drugs that you personally advocate to your patients? I know you mention several on your protocol page...have these all been tested and determined to be safe and effective in the treatment of oral nerve injuries to the same level that you seem to think VitB12 should and must be?

Here are some more abstracts on studies re: methylB12.....note the dosages that are mentioned in some of the abstracts.

http://www.integratedhealth.com/infoabstract/cobalab.html


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bowho
Member since Nov-26-07
452 posts
Jun-28-08, 01:28 AM (CST)
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21. "RE: Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin)"
In response to message #19
 
   BOB , Just to let you know ... I never took one drug under the impression that any of them would regenerate the nerve !! I took them in hopes to gain some relief from the suffering !! Thru blood work prior to my lingual nerve surgery i was found not to be vitamin deficient so why would i have bothered taking them ? I have always tried to maintain nutrition thru eating the right foods .. I was one healthy energetic physically fit person when my injury happened .. I used to run , roller blade or ride bike for miles just about daily for all my life ... After my injury just walking to mailbox became an effort with all the pain .. The neurontin did give me momentary relief from the abnormal nerve stimulation or i would not have spent 400.00 plus on it each month and took it every 6 hours on time for 3 years ...


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