Registration is NOT require to post or read messages. I recommend that you do register, click HERE for reasons why.

Please consult the FAQ option for assistance on how the board works.

Lingual and Inferior Alveolar Nerve Damage Discussion Site

Subject: "Burning mouth caused by lesion"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
Printer-friendly copy     Email this topic to a friend    
Conferences Burning Mouth Syndrome Discussion Topic #97
Reading Topic #97
dmplaura
Member since Jul-11-08
8 posts
Jul-11-08, 09:39 PM (CST)
Click to EMail dmplaura Click to send private message to dmplaura Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
"Burning mouth caused by lesion"
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jul-11-08 AT 09:40 PM (CST)
 
I have been living with burning mouth (mostly on the right side of my tongue/upper gums/cheek) for over a year now. I also experience a degree of this on the left upper gums, off and on.

This began prior to my being diagnosed with MS. I did IV steroids for MS when I was diagnosed, the burning mouth subsided. It came back strong about 2 months later, as did other symptoms resulting from MS. More steroids, burning mouth felt better.

Now, about 2 months since my last round of steroids, burning mouth is back and biting. I went to my neuro, explained how my burning mouth presents:

- barely there in the morning, much worse at night, sometimes keeping me awake
- drinking, eating, chewing gum provides relief, but only temporarily
- have been brushing with Biotene for several months. I brush, the mouth feels better, then it comes back
- ruled out thrush, vitamin deficiencies, no lesions in the mouth, no discoloration, dentists baffled, neuro suspects lesion from MS is causing this

So my neuro and I discussed a treatment plan. Beginning with 100mg of Neurontin and 10mg of Amitriptyline. Building up the Neurontin 100mg each week to 500mg daily.

I reached 500mg of Neurontin, stayed on that for 3 weeks or so, and the burning mouth is horrendous once again. So I went up to 600mg of Neurontin. It's just a raging wildfire now.

I know steroids helped this. I can't rely on the steroids for this, they'll eventually lose effectiveness (and steroids are administered for treatment of MS flares and relapses).

I discussed Klonopin (the Canadian equivalent) with my neurologist at the time. We decided to try Neurontin first before going that route.

I interested to hear from those who have failed on Neurontin and switched to Klonopin, or those who find that Klonopin helped for nerve related burning mouth, and if so, what dose you were taking at the time.

I'm working with my neuro to try and find something to treat this misery. This may be a long term problem (if we're talking lesion, suspected on the brain stem, could be a lifetime problem even).

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Diagnosed MS 03/08 Relapsing/Remitting.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion dmplaura Jul-31-08 1
     RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion AJ Aug-12-08 2
  RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion Grace15 Aug-20-08 3
     RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion dmplaura Aug-20-08 4
         RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion MaverickDMD Aug-22-08 5
             RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion dmplaura Aug-22-08 6
                 RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion MaverickDMD Aug-23-08 7
                     RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion dmplaura Aug-23-08 8
                         RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion MaverickDMD Aug-24-08 9
                             RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion dmplaura Aug-24-08 10

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
dmplaura
Member since Jul-11-08
8 posts
Jul-31-08, 06:41 AM (CST)
Click to EMail dmplaura Click to send private message to dmplaura Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
1. "RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion"
In response to message #0
 
   While I hate to reply to my lonely post without replies (lol!), I wanted to add to the still burning mouth situation, and what I found is, in my case, relieving some of the intensity/pain.

I've limited my coffee intake. I am a coffe-holic, but I felt that perhaps the acidity or something in the coffee could be adding to this. So I cut back a bit.

Also, I stopped eating fruits like apples/bananas, now I occasionally eat a nectarine (listed as low acid) and I get my C through stuff like broccoli, green pepper.

Changing the diet in my case, has helped a LOT. Also I had been taking Vitamin C supplements (500mg daily) thinking this would benefit my MS. Well, I've long known that orange juice causes me canker sores, so I haven't drank it in a long time. I noticed when I went back to C supplements my geographic and fissured tongue (2 things I've had off and on my entire life) got really bad. Fissures that were utterly painful. So I stopped the C supplements, tongue began to 'heal' from these 2 conditions, and the burning mouth began to decrease in intensity almost immediately.

Now I'm wondering, sitting here scratching my head, what is causing the burning mouth?! I know there's a connection to Vitamin C supplements causing the mouth problems all around. I know that for some reason my bod is hating on fruits... is this truly being caused by a lesion after all?! Is it entirely possible that this may actually be controllable through diet changes and by avoiding supplements that I know flare it?

My dentist (looking back now) that was treating me for TMJ pressed upon the back gums in the right and left sides of my mouth (by the jaw, on the top). After he did this, I noted at the time that the right side 'puffed' out. He said he was doing this to relieve pressure as part of my TMJ treatment. It was last year, which is completely foggy as to a time line of events, but I did call him to tell him that the spot 'puffed' out at the gum then. Is it possible that something was 'damaged' during this? I honestly cannot remember when he did this finger work pressing on my jaw inside my mouth with a lot of force. I do know that the splints I was given for TMJ, and was wearing for several months... during this time, about 2 weeks after beginning to wear these, that's when the burning mouth began.

I am going to contact the dentist and have them send me a full record of all the treatments that were done to me during this time. Hopefully I can unravel this mystery.

Diagnosed MS 03/08 Relapsing/Remitting.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
AJ
Member since Jan-4-07
18 posts
Aug-12-08, 07:24 AM (CST)
Click to EMail AJ Click to send private message to AJ Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
2. "RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion"
In response to message #1
 
   I have posted the below article before, it is found in the Merck Manual on-line. I am allergic to propylene glycol I knew this before I ever came down with BMS, but there were two more on the list and what I have noticed after reading ingredients in foods, make-up, lotions, shampoos/condidtioner, even toothpaste, most of the products/foods have these perservatives in them. I have eliminated all diet soft drinks they have the Benzoate in them and foods such as processed cheese(slices) have the sorbic acid in them. Bagels really bother me, they have sorbic acid in them, yet to find any without this ingredient is almost impossible. Thanks to the manufacturers of these, they want them to last alittle longer on the shelf but risk the consumers health for their greed. Just read all of the ingredients before you eat or use a prodcut.
Hope this helps.

Burning Mouth Syndrome

Burning mouth syndrome (also called oral dysesthesia) occurs most commonly among women after menopause. The most commonly affected part of the mouth is the tongue (pain in the tongue is termed glossodynia). A painful burning sensation may affect the entire mouth (particularly the tongue, lips, and roof of the mouth ) or just the tongue. The sensation may be continuous or intermittent and may gradually increase throughout the day. Symptoms that commonly accompany the burning sensation include a dry mouth, thirst, and altered taste. Possible consequences include changes in eating habits, irritability, depression, and avoidance of other people.

Burning mouth syndrome is not the same as the temporary discomfort that many people experience after eating irritating or acidic foods. Burning mouth syndrome is poorly understood. It probably represents a number of different conditions with different causes but a common symptom.

A common cause is the use of antibiotics, which alters the balance of bacteria in the mouth, leading to an overgrowth of the fungus Candida (a condition called thrush). Ill-fitting dentures and allergies to dental materials may be causes as well. Overuse of mouth rinses and sprays may lead to burning tongue syndrome, as can anything that leads to a dry mouth, such as alcohol or tobacco use, and many medications. Sensitivities to certain foods and food additives, particularly sorbic acid and benzoic acid (which are food preservatives), propylene glycol (found as a moisturizing agent in foods, drugs, and cosmetics), chicle (found in some chewing gums), and cinnamon, may play some role. Deficiencies of vitamins, including B12, folic acid, and B-complex, can cause burning mouth syndrome. Iron deficiency has also been implicated.

The condition is easy for doctors to diagnose but difficult to treat. Frequent drinks of water or use of chewing gum may help keep the mouth moist. Antidepressants, such as nortriptyline Some Trade Names AVENTYL, or antianxiety drugs, such as clonazepam Some Trade Names KLONOPIN , are sometimes helpful, although these drugs may make the symptoms worse by causing dry mouth. Sometimes symptoms disappear without treatment but may return later


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Grace15
Member since Jul-22-08
6 posts
Aug-20-08, 10:57 AM (CST)
Click to EMail Grace15 Click to send private message to Grace15 Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
3. "RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion"
In response to message #0
 
   Hi dmplaura,

I have just recently been diagnosed with Burning Mouth Syndrome, after having symptoms for about four months. It is such a complex disorder and there are so many theories and potential things that can cause it. I agree that it there probably isn't just one cause, but perhaps several factors and can be very individual to each person. I have been taking Klonopin for about 5 weeks now and have seen some slight improvement in the burning. Unfortunately, I also have a constant bitter/salty taste that is affecting the taste of food and has made eating very difficult. Taste alterations are very common with BMS, and sometimes Klonopin can help with the taste as well as the burning, but so far, not in my case. I'm sorry to hear that you have BMS in conjunction with MS, that must be very challenging to say the least. I wanted to let you know that there is forum just for BMS that has been around for awhile where you can find a lot of information and caring, knowledegable people who are very willing to provide help and support. It's www.go4hope.org. I found it a few months ago when I started researching my symptoms. Thought you may want to check it out. Take care and be well. Grace


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dmplaura
Member since Jul-11-08
8 posts
Aug-20-08, 11:05 AM (CST)
Click to EMail dmplaura Click to send private message to dmplaura Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
4. "RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion"
In response to message #3
 
   Thank you for the link Grace. I'll check it out

My neuro just increased my amitriptyline from 10mg to 20mg, and the last 2 days I have not had the burning mouth pain. Perhaps this is working along with the diet changes? Crossing my fingers that this will be gone.

I did just begin my MS injections in May as well. If this is resulting from a lesion due to MS, well, it could be that the lesion in question is slowly fading in activity.

I don't think myself or a doctor can figure this one out, outside of trial and error, but it seems to be getting better now. Finally!

Diagnosed MS 03/08 Relapsing/Remitting.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
MaverickDMD
Member since Dec-14-07
144 posts
Aug-22-08, 01:48 AM (CST)
Click to EMail MaverickDMD Click to send private message to MaverickDMD Click to add this user to your buddy list  
5. "RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion"
In response to message #4
 
   I've had spotty results with clonazepam as you seem to confirm. Somehow low dose amitriptyline seems to work and for an old tricyclic that didn't work well for depression there is obviously some other system that this drug works on. I've used this drug in atypical facial pain and pain associated with MS with decent results. If patients can get past the heavy anticholinergic side effects that attend this drug then oftentimes there is acceptable remission from their original complaint. Some don't get past the symptoms so bigger drugs like neurontin and lyrica are used. It is really hit or miss as nobody has the definitive answer as to what will work for everybody. Your success story is fairly typical really and it is good to hear that your neuro is willing to try a variety of approaches because sometimes luck is involved.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dmplaura
Member since Jul-11-08
8 posts
Aug-22-08, 01:07 PM (CST)
Click to EMail dmplaura Click to send private message to dmplaura Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
6. "RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion"
In response to message #5
 
   Thank you for the reply MaverickDMD.

I'm now wondering however, with Amitriptyline, which DOES seem to be helping more so than anything else I've entertained (and I don't seem to be getting side effects taking it, thankfully) if I should consider taking 10mg upon waking and 10mg at nighttime, to ensure it remains in my system for the full 24 hours.

Thoughts?

Diagnosed MS 03/08 Relapsing/Remitting.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
MaverickDMD
Member since Dec-14-07
144 posts
Aug-23-08, 11:24 PM (CST)
Click to EMail MaverickDMD Click to send private message to MaverickDMD Click to add this user to your buddy list  
7. "RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion"
In response to message #6
 
   This drug is normally so sedating that it is usually given at bedtime. However, if you are side effect free, then it would make sense to divide the dose as you suggest. Trial and error as you say.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dmplaura
Member since Jul-11-08
8 posts
Aug-23-08, 11:42 PM (CST)
Click to EMail dmplaura Click to send private message to dmplaura Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
8. "RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion"
In response to message #7
 
   I think I'll go the next few days with the 20mg at bedtime, then switch to the amount divided up morning/night. See if I get any 'added benefit' doing it one way or the other. I'll let you know if it helps much! I don't find that I get the sedative effects with Amitriptyline, but I do sleep well.

Today, the mouth seems overall to be MUCH better than it had been. 1 dull amount of burning on the right side.

If there's anyone that's had success with certain supplements, or seen a lessening of burning with supplements, I'd love to hear it! I currently only take 1000 IU of Vitamin D daily, but I have tried other supplements in the past.

Diagnosed MS 03/08 Relapsing/Remitting.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
MaverickDMD
Member since Dec-14-07
144 posts
Aug-24-08, 03:44 PM (CST)
Click to EMail MaverickDMD Click to send private message to MaverickDMD Click to add this user to your buddy list  
9. "RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion"
In response to message #8
 
   most of the BMS issues are attacked with B vitamins; often a B complex will suffice just make sure it has over 400mcg of folic acid and up to or exceeding 1000mcg of B12.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dmplaura
Member since Jul-11-08
8 posts
Aug-24-08, 05:18 PM (CST)
Click to EMail dmplaura Click to send private message to dmplaura Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
10. "RE: Burning mouth caused by lesion"
In response to message #9
 
   Thanks again MaverickDMD

I do have b12 tablets with folic acid here (1000mcg b12, not sure of the folic acid amount). My nutritionist said to take the b12 separately from the other B vitamins for proper absorption.

Maybe I should get back to taking my B complex

Diagnosed MS 03/08 Relapsing/Remitting.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
WEBMASTER